NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

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Carana
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Carana » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm

catkins wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:05 pm
Whiterose wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:49 am
Totally agree Carana. They would have to have other reasons why the person is a suspect. For example say it is one of the burglars, they had the telephone conversations, the fact that they admitted to doing burglaries in the area, then if DNA is found on Madeleine's sheet it is a big coincidence isn't it? Don't know if the Portuguese police agreed for any of the burglars to have their DNA taken though did they?
Reading through yours and Carana's posts....I agree mostly...... but I'm thinking if there was DNA samples.......and they did tie in with someone who was seen hanging around....then found that it matched. Whilst it wouldn't necessarily mean he was guilty, but would surely make it worth looking into him more deeply.
I'm thinking that PT didn't have a DNA base back then (not 100% sure)....so maybe this tactic wasn't familiar to them, as was the not guarding/stopping the 'crime scene' from any more contamination. :s_scratchhead

I had a long post in anwer that disappeared in a blip in Internet connection.

Briefly...

- There was no national DNA database (although they could call on Europol to ask them to consult those of their members).
- No missing child protocol.
- No way of initially determining a clear-cut "diagnosis" on whether a serious crime had occurred or not.
- Little serious investigative experience in that domain.
- Little communication between the GNR and the PJ.
- Big Brother syndrome over CCTV in public space (except in theory looking towards property or sensitive potential crime areas within them).
- Not a purely domestic potential crime... language barriers, a tourist resort, international media...
- Inadequate initial PJ resources (of all sorts, not just material).
- A transitional phase in terms of internal "corporate" change management.

There were more points... :s_sorry
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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:29 pm

Ah you reminded me.....wasn't their one CCTV camera that was working.................but Snr.Tunnel vision didn't have it checked?
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

sal
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by sal » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:39 pm

catkins wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Ah you reminded me.....wasn't their one CCTV camera that was working.................but Snr.Tunnel vision didn't have it checked?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/21003 ... vital-clue

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:34 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:39 pm
catkins wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Ah you reminded me.....wasn't their one CCTV camera that was working.................but Snr.Tunnel vision didn't have it checked?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/21003 ... vital-clue
Thanks Sal.....that's it......pathetic excuse for not checking it. It was wiped so how bloody long did they wait to try and get it?
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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Whiterose
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Whiterose » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am

Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
"The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Skillful pilots gain their reputation from storms and tempests."

Epictetus

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:15 am

Whiterose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am
Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
:snig: What a fool she is.
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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Hael
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Hael » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:44 pm

Whiterose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am
Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
:s_laughat
The trolls funding a shamed coppers right to lie about Kate and Gerry McCann are a new level of weirdo.[omitted] they may have destroyed all hope for good.Talking up conspiracy theories is one thing.Wrecking the search for an abducted child is another.-The Sun

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scoobydoo
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by scoobydoo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:05 pm

Whiterose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am
Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
Isnt she the woman who blamed the hospital where Gerry worked for her husband's death?

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:34 pm

scoobydoo wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:05 pm
Whiterose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am
Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
Isnt she the woman who blamed the hospital where Gerry worked for her husband's death?
Yes...... she does have a MASSIVE chip on her shoulder about Hospitals and Doctors it would seem.
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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Whiterose
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Whiterose » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:13 am

catkins wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:34 pm
scoobydoo wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:05 pm
Whiterose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:00 am
Just saw this on twitter can't believe what I was reading, that idiot Jill Havern [researcher] 'If Madeleine's pyjamas hadn't been abducted then neither had Madeleine' :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_crazy then a picture of Kate holding up A*****'s pyjama's. You couldn't make it up could you. THEY WEREN'T MADELEINE'S PYJAMA'S you pea brain.
Isnt she the woman who blamed the hospital where Gerry worked for her husband's death?
Yes...... she does have a MASSIVE chip on her shoulder about Hospitals and Doctors it would seem.
A really massive chip, to make it her lifes mission to spread lies about the parents of a missing child. There really are some truly weird people out there that's for sure.
"The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Skillful pilots gain their reputation from storms and tempests."

Epictetus

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scoobydoo
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by scoobydoo » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:35 pm

its really sad that she used the love for her husband in such a destructive way.

sal
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by sal » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 pm

Haverns members beware.......dissent will not be tolerated. :s_rofl
There is no intention to silence any member from posting on any topic, but the researchers here have done a vast amount of work on this topic and have all reached the same conclusion. This has also been discussed on the forum many times. ******, like all other members is entitled to her opinion and she is entitled to express that opinion. She has been permitted to do this and her posts are still available. However, much of what ****** has to say on this topic has already been dealt with on the forum and we are just going over old ground, this is getting us no closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine and it appears that ******' posts are meant only to discredit the research of other members. Also whilst ****** may have posted evidence from the official files, she does not recognise that some of this evidence may have been engineered by the McCann private detectives or that it may be false evidence produced after the witnesses had met with the McCann benefactor, Brian Kennedy.

Now either ****** is a little naive and not quite up to scratch with her research or she is deliberately trying to discredit the work of other members who have all reached the same conclusion after years of excellent research.

****** is quite free to post on any topic that she wants too but we just request that does further research in this area before making further comment.

Image

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:56 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 pm
Haverns members beware.......dissent will not be tolerated. :s_rofl
There is no intention to silence any member from posting on any topic, but the researchers here have done a vast amount of work on this topic and have all reached the same conclusion. This has also been discussed on the forum many times. ******, like all other members is entitled to her opinion and she is entitled to express that opinion. She has been permitted to do this and her posts are still available. However, much of what ****** has to say on this topic has already been dealt with on the forum and we are just going over old ground, this is getting us no closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine and it appears that ******' posts are meant only to discredit the research of other members. Also whilst ****** may have posted evidence from the official files, she does not recognise that some of this evidence may have been engineered by the McCann private detectives or that it may be false evidence produced after the witnesses had met with the McCann benefactor, Brian Kennedy.

Now either ****** is a little naive and not quite up to scratch with her research or she is deliberately trying to discredit the work of other members who have all reached the same conclusion after years of excellent research.

****** is quite free to post on any topic that she wants too but we just request that does further research in this area before making further comment.

Image
:s_thumbsup Is she finally realising what the rest of us have long ago?....Bloody Groundhog Day on there just like twitter :s_crazy
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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Whiterose
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Whiterose » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:34 am

catkins wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:56 pm
sal wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 pm
Haverns members beware.......dissent will not be tolerated. :s_rofl
There is no intention to silence any member from posting on any topic, but the researchers here have done a vast amount of work on this topic and have all reached the same conclusion. This has also been discussed on the forum many times. ******, like all other members is entitled to her opinion and she is entitled to express that opinion. She has been permitted to do this and her posts are still available. However, much of what ****** has to say on this topic has already been dealt with on the forum and we are just going over old ground, this is getting us no closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine and it appears that ******' posts are meant only to discredit the research of other members. Also whilst ****** may have posted evidence from the official files, she does not recognise that some of this evidence may have been engineered by the McCann private detectives or that it may be false evidence produced after the witnesses had met with the McCann benefactor, Brian Kennedy.

Now either ****** is a little naive and not quite up to scratch with her research or she is deliberately trying to discredit the work of other members who have all reached the same conclusion after years of excellent research.

****** is quite free to post on any topic that she wants too but we just request that does further research in this area before making further comment.

Image
:s_thumbsup Is she finally realising what the rest of us have long ago?....Bloody Groundhog Day on there just like twitter :s_crazy

Research my arse :s_biggrin everyone is lying or mistaken or have been bribed, absolutely crazy, it's a wonder they haven't carted them off in straight jackets, that forum is a complete and utter joke :s_crazy
"The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Skillful pilots gain their reputation from storms and tempests."

Epictetus

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Alibongo
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Alibongo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:36 pm

I'm still chortling at the lunatic files :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl
Parent-blaming is all-too-common these days, and usually the point is to make other parents feel better about their own parenting skills

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:12 pm

Alibongo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:36 pm
I'm still chortling at the lunatic files :s_rofl :s_rofl :s_rofl
Yes....not far wrong is it? :s_laughat
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

sal
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by sal » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:46 am

by Jill Havern Today at 8:21

Following on from Paulo's complaint, this has also now been lodged with the Daily Mail:


On-Line article, 5 Nov 2018. Madeleine McCann, Gonçalo Amaral

I refer to the article currently in line
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -book.html


I am absolutely SURE you know much of this story to be factually incorrect.

FIRST
"Kate and Gerry are currently battling him at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg"
The McCanns are NOT taking Dr Amaral to the ECHR. That is legally impossible.
They lost their case against him in the Supreme Court of Portugal some time ago, and are now trying to overturn that in the ECHR.
Their case is against the State of Portugal.

SECOND
"The couple fear any compensation paid to Amaral . . ."
They do not have to pay Dr Amaral anything.
Court costs were awarded against the McCanns, but no 'compensation' was ever awarded, and in fact the costs do not cover Dr Amaral's legal fees

THIRD
"Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral claims Maddie died in an accident and her parents covered up the crime"
This was not only the conclusion of Dr Amaral, it was the conclusion of the second Senior Investigating Officer who took over the case
This was also the conclusion of the "Examining Magistrates" who directed the case, of the Appeal Court, and of the Supreme Court, who unusually went so far as to state that the parents were not entitled to claim that the shelving of the case in some way 'proved' their innocence.

You will I am sure, be aware that official complaints have been made against several newspapers for constantly repeating these inaccuracies in the full knowledge that they are untrue.
In view of that I shall simply conclude with a question, which I am confident you will refuse to answer.

Why do you persist in repeating lies of this sort in this case, when the facts are readily available to you ?

Sincerely

Name redacted

(The same complaint has also been lodged with The Sun)


Might it be that the ECHR has just chucked the case out, and the press are getting their articles in early ? ? ?

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honestbroker1
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by honestbroker1 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:14 am

The last handout of around £150,000 was given at the start of April which runs out at the end of September.
It's 5 November?

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catkins
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by catkins » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:54 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:46 am
by Jill Havern Today at 8:21

Following on from Paulo's complaint, this has also now been lodged with the Daily Mail:


On-Line article, 5 Nov 2018. Madeleine McCann, Gonçalo Amaral

I refer to the article currently in line
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -book.html


I am absolutely SURE you know much of this story to be factually incorrect.

FIRST
"Kate and Gerry are currently battling him at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg"
The McCanns are NOT taking Dr Amaral to the ECHR. That is legally impossible.
They lost their case against him in the Supreme Court of Portugal some time ago, and are now trying to overturn that in the ECHR.
Their case is against the State of Portugal.

SECOND
"The couple fear any compensation paid to Amaral . . ."
They do not have to pay Dr Amaral anything.
Court costs were awarded against the McCanns, but no 'compensation' was ever awarded, and in fact the costs do not cover Dr Amaral's legal fees

THIRD
"Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral claims Maddie died in an accident and her parents covered up the crime"
This was not only the conclusion of Dr Amaral, it was the conclusion of the second Senior Investigating Officer who took over the case
This was also the conclusion of the "Examining Magistrates" who directed the case, of the Appeal Court, and of the Supreme Court, who unusually went so far as to state that the parents were not entitled to claim that the shelving of the case in some way 'proved' their innocence.

You will I am sure, be aware that official complaints have been made against several newspapers for constantly repeating these inaccuracies in the full knowledge that they are untrue.
In view of that I shall simply conclude with a question, which I am confident you will refuse to answer.

Why do you persist in repeating lies of this sort in this case, when the facts are readily available to you ?

Sincerely

Name redacted

(The same complaint has also been lodged with The Sun)


Might it be that the ECHR has just chucked the case out, and the press are getting their articles in early ? ? ?
Gobsmacked to read that they actually typed this “Why do you persist in repeating lies of this sort in this case, when the facts are readily available to you?”.......Perhaps it’s time that the Lunatic Fringe took their own advice :s_omg
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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honestbroker1
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:37 pm

catkins wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:54 pm
sal wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:46 am
by Jill Havern Today at 8:21

Following on from Paulo's complaint, this has also now been lodged with the Daily Mail:


On-Line article, 5 Nov 2018. Madeleine McCann, Gonçalo Amaral

I refer to the article currently in line
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -book.html


I am absolutely SURE you know much of this story to be factually incorrect.

FIRST
"Kate and Gerry are currently battling him at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg"
The McCanns are NOT taking Dr Amaral to the ECHR. That is legally impossible.
They lost their case against him in the Supreme Court of Portugal some time ago, and are now trying to overturn that in the ECHR.
Their case is against the State of Portugal.

SECOND
"The couple fear any compensation paid to Amaral . . ."
They do not have to pay Dr Amaral anything.
Court costs were awarded against the McCanns, but no 'compensation' was ever awarded, and in fact the costs do not cover Dr Amaral's legal fees

THIRD
"Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral claims Maddie died in an accident and her parents covered up the crime"
This was not only the conclusion of Dr Amaral, it was the conclusion of the second Senior Investigating Officer who took over the case
This was also the conclusion of the "Examining Magistrates" who directed the case, of the Appeal Court, and of the Supreme Court, who unusually went so far as to state that the parents were not entitled to claim that the shelving of the case in some way 'proved' their innocence.

You will I am sure, be aware that official complaints have been made against several newspapers for constantly repeating these inaccuracies in the full knowledge that they are untrue.
In view of that I shall simply conclude with a question, which I am confident you will refuse to answer.

Why do you persist in repeating lies of this sort in this case, when the facts are readily available to you ?

Sincerely

Name redacted

(The same complaint has also been lodged with The Sun)


Might it be that the ECHR has just chucked the case out, and the press are getting their articles in early ? ? ?
Gobsmacked to read that they actually typed this “Why do you persist in repeating lies of this sort in this case, when the facts are readily available to you?”.......Perhaps it’s time that the Lunatic Fringe took their own advice :s_omg
I can't possibly imagine that you mean they should read stuff like this, from the archiving dispatch, Catkins:
The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.

Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty - the disappearance of Madeleine - ...

Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.

The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics' conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.
(Portuguese prosecutors).

Can you?

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Carana
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Carana » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm

The Mail cribbing off Nick Pisa in the Sun. :rolleyes:


If indeed the McCanns have lodged a complaint with the ECHR, it would be against the State of Portugal, not Amaral himself.
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Ques ... rs_ENG.pdf

Which begs the question.... has Amaral had his book and "documentary" earnings released yet?
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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honestbroker1
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by honestbroker1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:43 pm

Carana wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
The Mail cribbing off Nick Pisa in the Sun. :rolleyes:


If indeed the McCanns have lodged a complaint with the ECHR, it would be against the State of Portugal, not Amaral himself.
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Ques ... rs_ENG.pdf

Which begs the question.... has Amaral had his book and "documentary" earnings released yet?
Could always be that the Portuguese have kept Amaral's il-gotten gains, er sorry, earnings, in anticipation of a ruling against the State and in favour of the McCanns so that the money (rightfully the McCanns) can be used in lieu of Portuguese tax-payers' money to pay off the McCanns?

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Carana
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Re: NUTTERS otherwise known as Haverns....

Post by Carana » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:54 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:43 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
The Mail cribbing off Nick Pisa in the Sun. :rolleyes:


If indeed the McCanns have lodged a complaint with the ECHR, it would be against the State of Portugal, not Amaral himself.
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Ques ... rs_ENG.pdf

Which begs the question.... has Amaral had his book and "documentary" earnings released yet?
Could always be that the Portuguese have kept Amaral's il-gotten gains, er sorry, earnings, in anticipation of a ruling against the State and in favour of the McCanns so that the money (rightfully the McCanns) can be used in lieu of Portuguese tax-payers' money to pay off the McCanns?

I don't think it works like that...
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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