For the numpies on twitter

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honestbroker1
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:50 pm

For the numpies on twitter

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:15 am

(and even one or two sensible people on twitter might find this interesting, too ...

The carpet square experiment:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4bab/7 ... 146b04.pdf
2. Material and methods
Two deceased individuals, a 60-year-old male (A) and a 63-year-old male
(B) were admitted to the Institute of Legal Medicine at the University Medical
Center Hamburg. They were immediately transported to a tent placed within the
inner courtyard of the institute. The location for this investigation was specifically
chosen in order to minimize a potential cross contamination of any odors
with those of stored, putrefied bodies within the Institute. Both men (A and B)
had publicly collapsed and died despite comprehensive resuscitative efforts. At
the start of our investigation, the postmortem interval for both men (A and B)
was measured at 110 and 120 min, respectively. Their body temperature was
measured at 37.2 8C (A) and 36.7 8C (B). Both bodies presented with a dry and
intact skin without any visible injuries except a puncture site from an intravenous
catheter on the posterior surface of one hand. These puncture marks
were immediately covered with latex gloves to prevent a direct contamination of
any materials with the dried blood.
Brand new carpet squares 20 cm 20 cm were purchased and used as the
medium for the odor transport. Before the initiation of this investigation, the
carpet squares were stored in airtight containers outside the boundaries of the
Institute of Legal Medicine.
The two bodies were placed in a supine position on top of a new and clean
table and a separate table was used for each individual. A cotton blanket was
wrapped around each body to preclude the direct contamination of the carpet
squares with the bodies while at the same time simulating a thin layer of
clothing covering each individual
. A total of 32 carpet squares were placed
subsequently underneath the backside of the torsos. Within 45 min of the
arrival at the institute, 24 carpet squares (body A) were ‘‘contaminated’’ for
10 min during three consecutive sessions. Within 15 min of arriving at the
institute, eight other carpet squares (body B) were contaminated for 2 min
during two subsequent sessions. Additionally, living individuals who denied
having had any contact with deceased tissues served as control subjects and
contaminated an additional eight carpet squares. Immediately following the
contamination, the carpet squares were placed into airtight glass jars and
brought to the Police Dog Training Center (LPS 36) at the Hamburg State
Police Department.
The State Police of Hamburg trains and keeps three blood and cadaver
search dogs:
‘‘B.’’, Malinois, male, 7 years old, 5 years ‘‘on duty’’ (Fig. 1a),
‘‘K.’’, Herder, male, 4 years old, 1.5 years ‘‘on duty’’ (Fig. 1b),
‘‘L.’’, Malinois, female, 3 years old, 1.5 years ‘‘on duty’’ (Fig. 1c).
The education and training the dogs received consisted primarily of searching
for ‘‘wet’’ materials such as blood, body fluid and muscle tissue. Generally,
scratching and barking demonstrated a positive signal by the dogs, whereas
negative signals produced no reaction. For this investigation, a false-positive
reaction was defined by the dog’s positive signaling for any uncontaminated

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Hael
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:34 pm

Re: For the numpies on twitter

Post by Hael » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:00 am

I see he vitriol on #McCann still continues.

I realise the 'cadaver dogs' are an interesting subject, but no matter how you argue the points, one fact remains ...

You can argue until the cows come home, the end result will always be that the dogs signalling is just a tool and is not conclusive evidence in a court of law.

For the numpties on twitter - The dogs signalling is NOT proof of a crime.
The trolls funding a shamed coppers right to lie about Kate and Gerry McCann are a new level of weirdo.[omitted] they may have destroyed all hope for good.Talking up conspiracy theories is one thing.Wrecking the search for an abducted child is another.-The Sun

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Whiterose
Posts: 4171
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:29 am

Re: For the numpies on twitter

Post by Whiterose » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:21 pm

As Grimes dogs were trained using dead pigs, would the results of the carpet squares mean anything? Grime said Eddie couldn't tell the difference between human dead body scent and dead pig after going to America, yet called Eddie 'enhanced' for some reason. IMO I believe all Eddie ever signalled to was blood.

Looks as though the two men were dead for one hour and fifty minutes and two hours. So that would mean nothing to the alerts by Eddie as Kate McCann give her alert an hour and a half after leaving Madeleine at home in bed.
"The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Skillful pilots gain their reputation from storms and tempests."

Epictetus

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Whiterose
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Re: For the numpies on twitter

Post by Whiterose » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:32 pm

Hael wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:00 am
I see he vitriol on #McCann still continues.

I realise the 'cadaver dogs' are an interesting subject, but no matter how you argue the points, one fact remains ...

You can argue until the cows come home, the end result will always be that the dogs signalling is just a tool and is not conclusive evidence in a court of law.

For the numpties on twitter - The dogs signalling is NOT proof of a crime.
As Eddie also alerted to blood and the scent of blood after an article removed from the site, he could have alerted to a number of things, especially as other families had stayed in 5a after the McCann's. As for the car, well numerous people had used that before the McCann's, also garments of Madeleine and garments of family members had been put in the boot. It will make no differnece to the anti's though 'the dogs don't lie' they will say, well no they don't they alert to a smell but the smell may not be connected to Madeleine McCann no matter how much they want it to.

They still harp on about blood splatter, and curtains being washed, why don't they just read the forensic report.
"The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Skillful pilots gain their reputation from storms and tempests."

Epictetus

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catkins
Posts: 31404
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: For the numpies on twitter

Post by catkins » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:13 pm

Hael wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:00 am
I see he vitriol on #McCann still continues.

I realise the 'cadaver dogs' are an interesting subject, but no matter how you argue the points, one fact remains ...

You can argue until the cows come home, the end result will always be that the dogs signalling is just a tool and is not conclusive evidence in a court of law.

For the numpties on twitter - The dogs signalling is NOT proof of a crime.
Many normal people have been trying to get that through the anti McCann trolls thick sculls for over 10years now..... #dimasfecktheyare
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

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scoobydoo
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:46 am

Re: For the numpies on twitter

Post by scoobydoo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:56 pm

if the dogs signalling was proof of anything then why bother with any other forensics, police investigations and justice system. Just train up a few spaniels, if they bark stop looking for the missing person, declare them dead and put the owner of the property where they barked in prison. Or alternatively try dunking them in water, if they drown declare them innocent, if they live throw them in prison!

Fact is the dogs are just a handy tool to try to narrow down spaces to look for a body. They are not proof of a body's presence on their own. If I cut my leg and got blood on the floor, according to Grime both dogs would alert. It doesn't make me dead.

If the dog was so good, then where is Madeleine? If her parents had hidden her body it cannot have been far as they were on foot in an unfamiliar area and police were looking within hours for her and her parents were only without an alibi for about an hour max, so even if they only spent ten minutes hiding the body that still leaves a maximum of it being a twenty five minute walking distance away. So twenty five minutes walk from the flat, public access available as they did not have access to private gardens etc, but private enough that no one would notice you burying a body in broad daylight, suitable conditions to hide a body i.e not rocky ground, fairly obvious though as it had to be somewhere someone unfamiliar with the area would come across easily. Not many places are going to fit that bill so why did the dog not alert anywhere else?

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